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Hmmm... DVD-+R/RW burner opinions?
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LaughnCynic



Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:42 pm    Post subject: Hmmm... DVD-+R/RW burner opinions? Reply with quote

Welp, just about ready to start ordering parts for the first of 2 boxes I need to build and I was wondering which DVD burner to go with. I remember a thread in here somewhere that talked about them a while back (*scrounging around* Aha! Here it is.).

So, any newer opinions from those that have gotten them?

I've been leaning towards the Sony DRU510A (or more accurately, what I believe to be it's OEM version... DW-U10A-BK for US$205 on Newegg.com). Hate to give $ to a company that's involved in the pushing of DRM tech but it looks like a decent burner with support for both - & + standards as well as good old CD-R/RW. The Pioneer A06U doesn't look bad either.

Decisions decisions... To quote the late and wise Benny Hill, "I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure...". Wink

Edit: Still not really clear on whether the DW-U10A-* is an OEM DRU500 or 510A. Grrr...


Last edited by LaughnCynic on Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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xo
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Joined: 09 Feb 2002
Posts: 466
Location: Los Angeles [comcast]

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slashdot had a couple of discussions recently (here and here).

The consensus seemed to be that the DRU510 and the new A06 were the way to go. As you mentioned, they both do dual format, so they are "can't miss" in that regard.

I'm leaning towards the A06 myself. Partly because I've heard nothing but good about Pioneer's drives and partly because of my distrust of Sony computer electronics (their TVs and camcorders are top notch tho!).

This item currently has my interest. $300 for an external firewire unit (I have multiple computers I would theoretically like to use it on) and it comes with some DVD authoring software for the Mac SKU (I'm mostly interested in it for the working with home videos on a Mac).

-xo
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Onakra



Joined: 19 Feb 2002
Posts: 89
Location: Geldrop, Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if/when this will come on the American market, but Plextor is introducing a nice model this August over here in Europe: http://www.plextor.be/english/products/px708a.html

Summary of speeds:

Writing DVD+R: 8x
DVD-R: 4x
CD-R: 40x

Rewriting DVD+RW: 4x
DVD-RW: 2x
CD-RW: 24x

Reading DVD-ROM: 12x
CD-ROM: 40x

Although the blanks will be pretty pricey at first the fact that it can also burn CDR(W)'s at a reasonable speed is for me enough reason to wait a bit more. Now 1 burner for all my burning needs! Now let's hope it won't be too expensive...
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Keikai



Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 178
Location: Miami, FL

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orqy and I both bought DRU-500As a long time back and were pretty happy with them (especially since we both got them retail for $250) until recently. Orqy was even considering selling his and buying a Pioneer, although I think he changed his mind now that he found a 4x media that worked. I'll let him know about this thread as I think he'll be able to speak better for himself.

As for me, it worked great for a while but recently I've been having troubles with it. After great expense in both time and money I still haven't been able to rule out media as the cause, but I'm leaning towards the drive. I've had to switch from -R to +R media in order to reduce the problems significantly. Interestingly, it doesn't burn coasters, but rather some files, always consecutive, will be unreadable after the supposedly successful burn. With +R I've only had one file so far do that, but with -R it was usually 1/3 of the files on the disc. I lost about $50-60 testing and, since +Rs were working decently, I decided not to waste any more money figuring out the problem for now, especially since +Rs are similar in price these days. I, personally, would not buy another Sony. Although, from what I can tell, I'm in the minority with these problems. But after years of success and thousands of burns with my SCSI Plextor CD-R writer, I expect allot from my burners, not that I was foolish enough to expect classic SCSI Plextor quality from a Sony.

Edit: <snipped paragraph>

To sum up, I'd either buy a Pioneer now or a Plextor after they've been out a while to see how well they work in the real world. When I say this is what I'd do I don't really mean it as a recommendation, but simply what I would do if I had to go buy one short term. I don't feel strongly enough in any direction to really recommend anything, unfortunately.


Last edited by Keikai on Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LaughnCynic



Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xo wrote:
This item currently has my interest. $300 for an external firewire unit (I have multiple computers I would theoretically like to use it on) and it comes with some DVD authoring software for the Mac SKU (I'm mostly interested in it for the working with home videos on a Mac).

I don't think I really need an external but I guess it would be cool to have the flexibility. The added cost just doesn't seem worth it to me at this point.

Onakra wrote:
I don't know if/when this will come on the American market, but Plextor is introducing a nice model this August over here in Europe: http://www.plextor.be/english/products/px708a.html

Damn, that does look like a sweet drive. Probably pull a premium price for it though and I just can't wait at this point (been putting off ordering parts for too long). So anoying... They mention they're bundling Nero with it. Wish Sony/Pioneer were bundling Nero with thiers.

Keikai wrote:
I, personally, would not buy another Sony. Although, from what I can tell, I'm in the minority with these problems.

Hehe... I asked for it... Now I've got it. A horror story about the kind of drive I'd pretty much decided on. Wink

Wierd kind of trouble. Don't think I've heard of something like that before (though I know jack about DVD burners). I notice a firmware upgrade for the DRU500A on Sony's support page but I'd assume you've gone through all that kinda crud.

I would have already ordered by now but a nice big thunder storm (I love Florida weather. Wink ) caught me mid-order so I had to shut everything down for the afternoon. I think I'll have to go give another quick looksy at the Pioneer A06.

Edit: Ok I went and looked at the Pioneer A06U again and it looks pretty damn good. There's even a pic on Newegg of the bundled software cd that has Nero on it so that's another plus for it since I like Nero for cooking my cdr's. So for a few $ more than an OEM Sony I think I'll go with the retail Pioneer A06U.
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Keikai



Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 178
Location: Miami, FL

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaughnCynic wrote:
Hehe... I asked for it... Now I've got it. A horror story about the kind of drive I'd pretty much decided on. Wink
Hah! Dont'cha hate it when folks complicate things? Smile If Orqy hadn't had some problems I'd say chock it up to my bad luck. With all the happy users you still might do the same. Of course, many of us usenet anime nuts burn more than most folks, methinks, so we're good at the endurance testing.

LaughnCynic wrote:
Wierd kind of trouble. Don't think I've heard of something like that before (though I know jack about DVD burners). I notice a firmware upgrade for the DRU500A on Sony's support page but I'd assume you've gone through all that kinda crud.
Aye. Interestingly, Orqy has done some serious experiementing with the firmware revisions and has actually gone back to 1.0f (I'm currently using 2.0f) if I remember correctly. You might want to PM him for more info. Also, for all we know the 510 fixed the potential pitfalls of the 500. Not that Sony would ever admit such a thing.

LaughnCynic wrote:
I would have already ordered by now but a nice big thunder storm (I love Florida weather. Wink ) caught me mid-order so I had to shut everything down for the afternoon. I think I'll have to go give another quick looksy at the Pioneer A06.
Yup, just that time of year for the DAILY thunderstorms. ^_^ I just keep my systems on a really expensive UPS and hope for the best.
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LaughnCynic



Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keikai wrote:
Yup, just that time of year for the DAILY thunderstorms. ^_^ I just keep my systems on a really expensive UPS and hope for the best.

Indeed! I am a firm believer in UPS mojo. Wink Just about to order a new APC RS1500(BR1500 w/1500VA/835W and 8 plugs [6 backed up/2 surge only] and net/phone pass through) for this first new box I'm building. 430W PSU + 21" monitor and who knows how many other things to plug into it so I prefer to have some room to grow in my UPS's.

The reason I shut down everything right now is that I got zaped by a big bolt just a few weeks back which came in through my ISDN line. It fried the PCB of the punchdown to rj45 connector in my panel, jumped right through the passthrough on an old ups I use on my ISDN router and 10/100 switch, and cooked the patch cable running into my $300 router. The router survived amazingly. If the cable hadn't fried I'm sure my router would have been cooked to a crispy non-functional state. I really lucked out. Smile

And wouldn't you know that APC's online store is out of stock on thier PNET1 pass through data line surge protectors when I went to order the RS1500 UPS directly from them (the online retailers they recommend all have pretty lame ratings on resellerratings.com). Go figure. Wink
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xo
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Joined: 09 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keikai wrote:
Orqy and I both bought DRU-500As a long time back and were pretty happy with them (especially since we both got them retail for $250) until recently. Orqy was even considering selling his and buying a Pioneer, although I think he changed his mind now that he found a 4x media that worked.


A friend of mine has the DRU-500 and while he's been mostly happy with it, he does have one significant complaint: he can not get it to burn at 4X. I'd be curious to know which media you guys have successfully burned at 4X.

-xo
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Keikai



Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 178
Location: Miami, FL

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaughnCynic wrote:
I really lucked out
I should say so! I can certainly appreciate your caution after that!
LaughnCynic wrote:
And wouldn't you know that APC's online store is out of stock on thier PNET1 pass through data line surge protectors
Can these be used for other than telephone (2-4-wire) configurations? Can you use them with CAT5 cables without severe problems? I have one but never trusted it enough to use it for anything other than phonelines. I seem to recall when I bought them finding that they only pass half of the wires through or perhaps only surge protect half? I can't remember.
xo wrote:
I'd be curious to know which media you guys have successfully burned at 4X.
Orqy is definately the one to ask about this as he's performed many tests. I believe he recently told me he was able to burn 4x with Memorex 4x DVD+Rs and firmware 1.0f. But again, I'd ask him to be certain. I never burn above 2x so I've never cared to test.
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LaughnCynic



Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keikai wrote:
Can these be used for other than telephone (2-4-wire) configurations? Can you use them with CAT5 cables without severe problems?

Well this is the PNET1 which appears to be a single line 8 wire (10/100) data line surge protector. I've never used one before personally but I was looking for a way around spending more money to upgrade the old APC Back-Ups 400 that's running my router and switch (it only has the 2 wire single line phone/fax/dsl pass through built into it). Next step up is a Back-Ups Pro 420 (BP420S) I think. It has a full ethernet pass through but it's not cheap even using thier 'trade up' program to exchange your old ups for a newer one of higher rating for a discount. I hate to go absolutly nuts with load overkill on things that draw a trickle campared to even a small system.

I'm not really sure what I'm going to do about getting that incoming line secured at this point. I've been too frazzled trying to decide on which parts to pick for the first box I'm building. However that's past since I just ordered almost everything for box 1. *sigh* (I ended up going the i875P w/P4C @2.4GHz/800Mhz FSB route)

xo wrote:
I'd be curious to know which media you guys have successfully burned at 4X.

I guess I would be too since I'll have one of these things to mess with in a week or so.

I think I'll email my brother and see what he's been using with his burner.
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zanson



Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also got a DRU 500A and I've never had any troubles with it... You have to be very carefull with DVD-/+R media though. As there is a lot of crappy media out there. I've been happily burning 4x TDK DVD+R's lately as Best Buy had them on sale for like $130 for 100 spindle a few weeks back.

Keikai: I'm curious what brand/speed the DVD-R's you had issues with were? I've never had any troubles with 2x Ritek G03's. But I have heard a lot of horror stories about a lot of the el-cheapo 1x media and any of the drives.

LaughnCynic: If you really want the scoop on DVD-R drives from many many people go check out the forums over at dvdrhelp.com formerly vcdhelp.com. There are A LOT of discussions on the good and bad of pretty much every drive, and every brand of dvdr media out there on the forums there.

Good luck with the purchase. I got mine last December and have been loving it. It is very nice to fit an entire 26 ep divx series onto 1 dvdr, its made it so I actually watch the stuff I've burned, as I don't have to hunt through 10 cdrs to watch it.

Oh, the other thing to know about DVDR media, DVD-R media can't multi-session, DVD+R, -RW, +RW can. Oh and if you've got a mac with a superdrive, they won't frickin read a DVD+R/RW disc!!! Just spit it back out at you... damn stupid things Sad Atleast the one in my powerbook won't, thats my current annoyance on DVDR format battles.
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Keikai



Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 178
Location: Miami, FL

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaughnCynic wrote:
Well this is the PNET1 which appears to be a single line 8 wire (10/100) data line surge protector
Ah I misremembered the model of my units, which are PNET4s. I'll have to look through the documentation again but I think these newer ones might be better with data lines even though it still has the same model number as the ones I bought quite a few years ago.
zanson wrote:
Keikai: I'm curious what brand/speed the DVD-R's you had issues with were? I've never had any troubles with 2x Ritek G03's. But I have heard a lot of horror stories about a lot of the el-cheapo 1x media and any of the drives.
Aye, I rarely buy cheapo media, and when I do, I dont judge a drive by it. The problem originally occured with Ritek G03s on no less than 10 burns with that media. This was after having no problems with an entire 50 piece spindle. It also occurred with one other brand of DVD-R, but I cannot recall what it was at the moment. As I mentioned, DVD+Rs have worked nearly without incident so far. I spent nearly a week trying to diagnose the problem, and, while I wasn't completely out of things to try, I was out of patience and petty cash. What I REALLY needed at the time was another 500A to try, but, unfortunatly, I don't have any local friends that own one.
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LaughnCynic



Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zanson wrote:
dvdrhelp.com formerly vcdhelp.com

Doh! Never even thought of that. Hell I haven't stopped by there in so long that they've changed thier name since I was last there. Wink Hmmm... Yup, lots of info there. Thanks for reminding me. (Updated bookmark)

Already ordered the Pioneer A06U which looked pretty good to me and seems to be in good standing on dvdrhelp after a quick look so I think I'll be alright. I'll probably have to read more to try and avoid the media roulette game.

As far as multi-session'n goes... I never do it so it's no problem for me. Thanks for the tip though.

Keikai,

If there's one complaint I have about APC it's that they haven't allways been clear on thier site about their line pass throughs on their UPS's. I have 2 Back-Ups 650's (BK650MC) and when I bought them I went so far as to call tech support and ask if that specific model's line pass through would protect ethernet and the guy said, "yes". However it turned out to be just 2 wire modem/fax/dsl line. The odd thing is that one of my 650's will pass through ethernet and one won't so perhaps I caught them as they were changing features on that model. Even so I don't really trust that one so I don't depend on it. Part of why I'm moving to the BR1500's which have both phone and ethernet pass throughs (according to thier site... I'm hoping they've got their specs correct this time.).
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Orqyman



Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 98
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:03 am    Post subject: what the hell, I swear I logged in already Reply with quote

Hi, sorry to jump on the boat so late, as always

I have a sony too, (500A) but am about to go sell it off in favor of a pioneer. Hey, the sony's still got great resale value. But before I go any further, http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=11762

Bascially the British dude says pretty much everything I've thought up to this point. The sony will burn everything up to 4x on +R media, regardless of firmware, 1.0f and up. The thing about 2.0f is me and Keikai both get PIO mode for some reason. At 5megs/sec during write, your cpu will struggle, and the buffer will flush. Again, that's just me and him, but that's already 2 ppl too many. The other firmwares I tried between 1.0f -> 2.0e all work in DMA2 which is fine.

Anyway, medias I've tried with the sony:

+R
**********************
Memorex 4x. Burns at 4x every time, nice quality burn as well.
Thing about this is, I burn only DVD video on it as my pioneer reader can't read +R. But burn a DVD-Video on it, and the pioneer reads it fine. Weird. xbox and V4 PS2 both can't read it.

+RW
**********************
Sony 2.4x. Hey, it comes as default. Works fine.

Memorex 2.4x 3 of these, one of them was a dud, not much else to say.

-R -heres where I cut loose.
***********************
fujifilm 2x. First couple I burned with 1.0d firmware and the PS2 had trouble reading it. Using later firmware, they read fine. So use the right firmware folks!

memorex 2x. Same as fuji's except I've only used 1.0f since then; nice dye color, and quality burn. WTF is a quality burn? you'll know when I tell you one that isn't.

princo 1x. Not much to say here, except I like white tops that don't smudge, my first pak of generics. cheap but 1hr burns aren't fun. They do read fine however in xbox and PS2 as well as my other 3 dvd players.

Ritek G03 2x My favorite! I've burned about 400 of these, mostly for myself but also for various ppl. A friend of mine had a spindle of white top G03's that half didn't work, but the silver tops have all been great. Coastered maybe 3, but those were because I was trying to play games and watch movies at the same time. (probably mplayer). Best dye out of all the discs, even the retail ones. You dont' have to ask me, I'm sure you all have seen this posted over and over again. Reads in everything.

Verbatim 2x Well, they're ugly, but I got them onsale at OMax. The funny thing is they work as DVD-R video in xbox. What I mean is usually DVD-R burned video, won't work in xbox player, but DVD-R burned games will. This one will work, weird. quality burn as well.

Matrix 4x I can't think of something "shieettyier" than these. Actually LONGTEN is in the ADVDinfo. But half of these coastered, the other half burned at 2x or 4x randomly. Maybe the pioneer would do this better. The burn looks horrible. I don't think I'm suppose to see tree rings in the burn, but that's what I'm getting. Now you know what a good burn is relative to a bad one. This is where I tried all the different firmwares trying to get them to work.

Princo 4x. Again, half burn at 4x and half at 2x. One coaster, but that was from DVDdecypter that probably didn't go back to 2x once 4x fails. The rest were in nero at 4x using 1.0f. One disc also burned at 4x for 80% and all a sudden switched to 2x at the end. Resulting burn took 22 min, and also had a tree ring where the speed switch took place. Now considering all the pioneer ppl have gotten this to work at 4x, and from what else I've encountered, I'd have to agree with the UK guy's speech he made in the link above. The sony is a +R burner with -R support.

There's also another link within the link that goes to CDRinfo saying that -R discs are more compatible. Dunno what that means, but my consoles like -R more for sure, so that's what I'll be burning more of. In which case, I've already ordered the A06 and will see how that goes.

Edit: LC: The U10 and U12 are both OEM 500. U14 is OEM 510.
http://forum.firmware-flash.com/dl_firmware.php?category=4&manufactor=30
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LaughnCynic



Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orqyman wrote:
LC: The U10 and U12 are both OEM 500. U14 is OEM 510.

Thanks. I kinda figured it out after reading a review xbitlabs put up here on some dvdr's and looking at the specs again.

I decided on a Pioneer A06U (retail version for US$240) myself. Should be here with the rest of the parts for the 1st of 2 new boxes I'm building wednesday (I hope). I'll be taking your media notes and doing some more reading before I buy a spool or whatever when the time comes. The retail drive comes with 1 -R and 1 -RW to play with I think. Thanks for the info. Smile
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